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DeFi Gigabrain Tarun Chitra on staking and staking ETH and why ‘financial nihilism’ is a real consumer product
Crypto is a world built for autodidacts, a playground for polymaths. Tarun Chitra, founder of risk management, economic research and software optimization organization Gauntlet, is just one shining example. In a conversation with Chitra, this comes across. It seems there is no corner of cryptography he hasn’t examined.
Chitra, who often pauses before answering questions, will speak in Consensus 2024, May 29-31, in Austin, Texas.
CoinDesk has caught up with the true DeFi celebrity known for his colorful style (hair, cups It is clothes) to talk about new financial primitives in crypto, artificial wombs, and why he appreciates busybodies.
This interview has been lightly edited for brevity and clarity.
I thought maybe we could start with a quick round of overrated/underrated. You can skip any of them or clarify your statements if you prefer.
Clear.
Life extension?
I have a very rough classification in my head of passive versus active life extension. Passive is: I get healthier by eating better and maybe take some supplements. Active is: I get all kinds of esoteric experimental therapies and, like, injections. You know what I mean, one involves surgery and the other a simpler change of habits.
I was thinking more about the first one.
Probably overrated. I think the latter is classified correctly.
Yes. A healthy life is good.
But that’s why I wanted to separate them.
Artificial uteruses?
In fact, I think it is highly rated. Maybe a little underrated, actually. But not super underrated. I feel like they’re getting a lot of enthusiasm.
CLOBs [central limit order book exchanges].
Overestimated.
Could you say why?
I think we had the CLOB era as the only thing that worked. Then AMMs took off and CLOBs became crap. And then in the low-latency, perpetual blockchain worlds, everyone was like “CLOBs are better, CLOBs are better.” Not that we’ve seen a lot of people necessarily going back to CLOBs, but I feel like the tide has turned now. People are constantly shitting on AMMs. Then fine. But it seems like there’s always this cyclical thing between the two.
See too: What is an automated market maker?
Dutch auctions?
One shot Dutch auctions are overrated. Dutch multi-shot auctions are underrated.
Omnichains?
Can you define what you mean by omnichain in this context?
Honestly, not so much. It’s just a term I’ve seen popping up a lot recently and I can’t tell you what they are.
Yeah, well, it turns out it’s more of a marketing term than anything real, to be perfectly honest. So overrated that it seems like it’s not a real thing. It doesn’t refer to a single technical thing that I could write equations for and say, “here’s a guarantee you’re getting out of this.”
The story continues
That was the impression I got too. This is perhaps a cruel question, but Aave.
Refuse to respond.
Who are your intellectual heroes?
Paulo Dirac. John von Neumann. I’m trying to think of a more recent one. Boring is like Terence Taos of the world. Is there anyone who is not so famous? …Yes, keep them. These are the well-known ones, I think the others are very specific.
Fair. You wrote about DAO governance in 2021. I was wondering if you think we’ve learned anything since then? whether the governance of the DAO has improved in the following years?
I think there is something where the actual governance processes of many DAOs have gotten worse or better. Whether due to sclerosis or centralized purchasing or something else, there are many reasons for one or the other. I don’t think there have been many new engines that people have focused on because you don’t get rewarded for improving a DAO engine.
See too: Beware of DAOs: Neo-Imperialism is on the Rise
With Compound, I feel like because of the way they launched, they were actually rewarded as a team for improving DAO mechanisms when they decentralized governance in 2020. But since then, everyone who has innovated governance has generally been outside of DeFi. And they didn’t make it.
There’s still a lot of mechanistic innovation that hasn’t been done. And part of the reason it hasn’t been done is underfunding relative to other things, right? Like you could raise a lot more money to make another robot than you could ever raise for a new governance system.
When is it appropriate for crypto to embrace financial nihilism? Like, lean into it?
Good question. It looks like we’re getting closer. So I don’t know if this is an answer for when it’s appropriate – but hasn’t that already happened? The problem for me is that financial nihilism has a real consumer application. Most other things considered encryption for consumers, people think, are a scam, or a lie, or don’t really need encryption, would work fine as Web2 for me – I can go down the list.
Financial nihilism is a true consumer product. Like there’s no way around it. It’s hard to ignore the fact that they found a way to make Binance more fun for someone who doesn’t like looking at candles – and I think that’s why Bomb.fun exist. People love it because it’s the same thing, but it doesn’t feel like it and it’s a good consumer app.
This will disappoint all the people raising millions of dollars to make consumer crypto, but that’s exactly what it is.
Do you think Farcaster will ever fully replace Crypto Twitter and would it be a loss for Farcaster if CT was completely recreated on Farcaster?
Farcaster is like where the WAGMI refugees are [we are all gonna make it] movement of 2021 was. In the beginning, they were all people who were really genuine about being part of the cult of toxic positivity. I feel like those who were sincere about it went and created Farcaster. I just don’t feel like trader type people will mesh perfectly, so it doesn’t seem possible to completely recreate the “degen side”. Farcaster is much healthier.
Do you see the emergence of any interesting financial primitives that you think will become increasingly important?
I mean, in general, I think re-staking falls under this. But things that allow you to not know what network you are on, but offer the same security guarantees of that network; re-staking is a version of that, aggregation stuff that people are doing and ZK-land is a version of that. I think this is the key to making the user experience of the multi-chain world feel as good as something like Solana.
There are concerns that there is already too much ETH staked or that there will soon be too much ETH staked. Do you believe this argument? Is there an adequate amount?
It honestly depends. I don’t believe there is a static, fixed amount that will always be the right amount. It depends on the use. If it turns out that there is a lot of ETH usage in on-chain applications or on centralized exchanges, then it is kind of bad to have a lot of ETH staked because then there is no liquidity and you may face a supply crisis.
On the other hand, if there is very little ETH staked, then yes, of course, different types of attacks are possible. The biggest problem, in some respects, with proof of stake is that it is easy to calculate the monetary value of an attack. I can always take 1/3 of the amount bet and find out how expensive it is to attack.
See too: The Ultimate Investor’s Guide to Proof of Work
With proof of work, because people can come and go, it takes a while to figure out how expensive an attack is and you can’t figure it out as accurately. So the proof-of-work lower bound is actually harder to estimate, and actually harder to attack in some respects.
So I think it will always be dynamic. Some new technologies will help reduce how much you need to bet – that’s the goal of ZK and advanced cryptography, but it will never be constant. It really just depends on how much the applications want to use and whether the applications are using Ether a lot.
How many pairs of glasses do you own?
Probably about 10.
And lastly, is there anything in particular you’re looking forward to at Consensus?
Doing another live podcast.
I was there last time. It was good!
Yes, live podcasts are fun. Especially if you seem like a questioner to the public.
I’ll try to think of something clever to bother you.
Yes, well, thanks for stopping by.
The spotlight next week will shift somewhat to the Federal Reserve’s second-quarter earnings season and monetary policy. Market watchers will be treated to results from several major names, including Dow 30 components Goldman Sachs (GS), UnitedHealth (UNH), Johnson & Johnson (JNJ) and American Express (AXP), along with streaming giant Netflix (NFLX).
The Fed will still attract some attention as investors will be eager to hear from a packed lineup of central bank speakers just before the policy meeting lockout period.
In terms of the economic calendar, after fifteen days of labor market and inflation indicators, activity data will gain momentum in the form of the latest retail sales and industrial production reports.
Earnings Highlight: Monday, July 15 – Goldman Sachs (GS) and BlackRock (Black). See the full earnings calendar.
Earnings Highlight: Tuesday, July 16 – UnitedHealth (UNH), Bank of America (BAC), Progressive (PGR), Morgan Stanley (IN), PNC Financial (PNC) and JB Hunt Transport (JBHT). See the full earnings calendar.
Earnings Highlight: Wednesday, July 17 – Johnson & Johnson (JNJ), US Bancorp (USB), Morgan Children (KMI), United Airlines (UAL) and Ally Financial (ALLY). See the full earnings calendar.
Earnings Highlight: Thursday, July 18 – Netflix (NFLX), Abbott Laboratories (ABT), Black stone (BX), Domino’s pizza (ZDP) and Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing (TSM). See the full earnings calendar.
Earnings Highlight: Friday, July 19 – American Express (AXP), Halliburton (THANKS) and Travelers (VRT (return to recoverable value)) See the full earnings calendar.
IPO Observation: Hospital and healthcare clinic operator Ardent Health Partners (TARDT), insurance service provider Twfg (TWFG) and the biotechnology company Lirum Therapeutics (LRTX) are expected to price their IPOs and begin trading next week. The analyst quiet period ends at Rectitude (RECT) to free up analysts to publish ratings.
Police cars outside the residence of Thomas Matthew Crooks, the suspected shooter at a Trump rally on Saturday, investigate the area in Pennsylvania. Following the incident, one rally attendee was killed, two rally attendees are in critical condition and Donald Trump suffered a non-fatal gunshot wound. The shooter is dead after being shot dead by the United States Secret Service. (Photo by Kyle Mazza/Anadolu via Getty Images)
Investors will initially favor traditional safe-haven assets and may lean toward trades more closely tied to former President Donald Trump’s chances of winning the White House after he survived an assassination attempt, according to market watchers.
“There will undoubtedly be some protectionist or safe-haven flows into Asia early this morning,” said Nick Twidale, chief market analyst at ATFX Global Markets. “I suspect gold could test all-time highs, we’ll see the yen being bought and the dollar, and flows into Treasuries as well.”
Early market commentary suggested Trump’s shooting at a rally in Pennsylvania on Saturday could also prompt traders to increase his likelihood of success in the November election. His support for looser fiscal policy and higher tariffs is generally seen as likely to benefit the dollar and weaken Treasuries.
An indicator of market sentiment heading into the weekend: Bitcoin surged above $60,000, likely reflecting Trump’s pro-crypto stance.
Other assets positively linked to the so-called Trump trade include stocks of energy companies, private prisons, credit card companies and health insurers.
Traders will also be closely watching market measures of expected volatility on Monday, such as those in the tariff-sensitive Chinese yuan and Mexican peso, which have begun to price in the U.S. vote.
Trump said he was shot in the right ear after a shooting at his rally. His campaign said in a statement that he was “fine” after the incident, which prompted him to rush off the stage.
“Currencies will be the first major market on Monday in Asia to react to the weekend’s shots. There’s potential for extra volatility, and getting a clear reading could be especially difficult because liquidity will be hurt by Japan’s national holiday,” said Garfield Reynolds, Asia team leader for Bloomberg Markets Live.
Strategists had already expected a volatile run-up to the election, particularly as Democrats are still agonizing over President Joe Biden’s candidacy after his poor performance in last month’s debate raised questions about his age. Investors were also grappling with the possibility that the election could end in a drawn-out dispute or political violence.
But there is little precedent for events like those in Pennsylvania. When President Ronald Reagan was shot four decades ago, the stock market plunged before closing early. The next day, March 31, 1981, the S&P 500 rose more than 1% and benchmark 10-year Treasury yields fell 9 basis points to 13.13%, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.
Bond investors should pay particular attention as the attack is likely to boost Trump’s election chances and ultimately lead to concerns about the fiscal outlook, according to Marko Papic, chief strategist at California-based BCA Research Inc.
“The bond market must at some point become aware of President Trump’s greater chances of winning the White House than any of his rivals,” Papic wrote. “And I continue to believe that as his chances increase, so too must the likelihood of a bond market revolt.”
Kyle Rodda, senior financial markets analyst at Capital.com, said he was seeing client flows into Bitcoin and gold following the shooting.
“This news marks a turning point in American policy norms,” he said. “For markets, it means safe-haven trades, but more tilted toward non-traditional safe-havens.”
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News / Business / Latest Business News Live Updates Today, July 11, 2024
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Jio Financial share price: Should you buy this Reliance group stock on Monday ahead of Q1 FY2024 results?
Q1 2024 Results: Jio Financial Share Price will be in focus on Monday as the Reliance Group company has a fixed board meeting on July 15, 2024 to consider and approve the company’s unaudited standalone and consolidated financial results. Trust Group company informed about the Q1 2024 Results date on Wednesday last week via an exchange filing. According to stock market experts, Jio Financial Services Limited is poised to deliver impressive Q1 results for FY25 on solid operating income. They have forecast a healthy QoQ PAT for the company in Q1 FY25.
Jio Financial Services News
Speaking on the Jio Financial Services Q1 2024 results, Manish Chowdhury, Head of Research, StoxBox, said, “We believe Jio Financial Services is poised to deliver impressive results in Q1FY25 aided by its operating income, which is likely to show robust growth driven by strong investment income, which in turn should lead to healthy PAT growth on a sequential basis. Jio Financial Services continues to make strategic moves such as launching digital products and expanding its ecosystem, with a clear focus on future growth. The company has announced plans to introduce products for lending against stocks and mutual funds, leveraging Jio’s large user base, which could be a significant growth driver in the coming quarters.”
“Furthermore, with the NBFC receiving RBI approval to become a primary investment company, Jio Financial Services is well-positioned to unlock value from its investments. Overall, we expect the company to report robust numbers in the upcoming quarter,” the StoxBox expert added.
Jio Financial Stock Target Price
Speaking about the technical outlook of Jio Financial share price, Ganesh Dongre, Senior Manager, Technical Research at Anand Rathi, said, “Jio Financial Services share price is poised to make a fresh high at the ₹260 apiece level. If the stock breaks above this mark, the Reliance Group stock could make a fresh high by touching the ₹290-₹295 zone. Hence, those with Jio Finance stock in their portfolio are advised to stick to the script by keeping a stop loss at ₹205. If the stock breaks above ₹260 decisively, then one can upgrade the stop loss at ₹240 for the near-term target of ₹295.”
On the advice to new buyers regarding Jio Financial stock, Ganesh Dongre said, “New buyers are advised to wait for the breakout. Once the stock breaks above ₹260, one can buy this Reliance Group stock at the short term target of ₹295, keeping a stop loss of ₹240 apiece.”
Disclaimer: The views and recommendations made above are those of individual analysts or brokerage firms, and not of Mint. Investors are advised to consult with certified experts before making any investment decisions.
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